2008 – God’s Final Witness

Here is a review of “2008 – God’s Final Witness” (“2008 – GFW” hereafter). Ronald Weinland began writing “2008 – GFW” during the fall of 2005. This book was a sequel to “Prophesied End Times” published in 2004. In December of 2005, Weinland announced to his church that he was an End Time Witness by reading from a draft of the first chapter of “2008 – GFW”. These books are available as free PDF downloads from his the-end.com website

It’s recommended that the first page to be read in “2008 – GFW” is the very last page in which a specific warning is given.

“2008 – GFW” was released to the printer on November 14, 2006 and also made available as a PDF download on the-end.com. Hard copies were not available for several more months.  The book FAILed immediately, as it included the statement “When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006….”.

“2008 – GFW” itself has few dates. Dates for actual events such as the Opening of the Seventh Seal were given by Weinland in sermons down loadable from his church’s website — actually he gave two dates for each event: both in a first timeline and then again with a second timeline. However the book does give sequences of types of events, particularly the “thunders” of Revelation 10 which Weinland claims were revealed to him or defined by him.

Note: I’ve also added a page with criticism written by Don Doherty.

Following are quotes from his book with analysis of their validity.

From “2008 – God’s Final Witness”

2008 God's Final WitnessPage 4, 1st full paragraph:

The proof of the validity of my first book, and now this one, is in the timing and the destruction that follows, exactly as both books describe.

Weinland sets the stage early on in his book. According to Ron, “2008 – GFW” and his first book “Prophesied End Time” are valid if the timing of the destruction that follows is exactly as described in the books.

In the first few pages of the book, Weinland describes the events following the interviews he gave beginning in September, 2004 to promote his first book, such as the December, 2004 tsunami and Hurricane Katrina.  On page 4, 3rd full paragraph:

What we have witnessed since those interviews a year ago will only increase in magnitude and frequency until we come to the last and final stage. This final stage is referred to as the great tribulation which is prophesied to last for a final three and one half years. It will begin with one-third of the United States being destroyed—followed by World War III.

The hurricane season of 2005 was very active, but there has been nothing even close since then.
In sermons, Weinland first set the beginning of the 3 & 1/2 year Great Tribulation as April 17, 2008. But in June of 2008, he reset it to begin on December 14, 2008. Weinland acknowledged that so far the tribulation is not great, so he has modified the second timeline to allow for 980 days of Great Tribulation beginning on September 20, 2009. Which contradicts the following statements in his books:

  • Page 2: Final end-time events that will lead into the great tribulation, at the opening of the Seventh Seal, have already begun.
  • Page 4: This final stage is referred to as the great tribulation which is prophesied to last for a final three and one-half years.
  • Page 10: End-time events will become far more devastating, growing in frequency, until we are finally thrown into the midst of the water when the final three and one-half years of great tribulation strike.
  • Page 16: The other witness will be revealed to the world during the time of the great tribulationwithin the final three and one-half years of man’s era.
  • Page 60: This country is the focus for the beginning of great tribulation which will strike the earth in the final three and one-half years that precede the return of Jesus Christ, when He takes over the rule of all government on the earth.
  • Page 64: The Seventh Trumpet sounds on the final day of the last three and one-half years of great tribulation,
  • Page 79: The very last day of man’s self-rule—the last day of the three and one-half years of great tribulation—is marked by powerful events.
  • Page 86: This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.
  • Page 96: All Seven Thunders will increase in power and recognition over the next two years (from the date of the first printing of this book) and on into the final three and one-half years of great tribulation.
  • Page 107: However, every minister who was scattered, who fails to repent early on and return to God (with me, as God’s minister, teaching them) will die during the final three and one-half years of great tribulation.
  • Page 115: When Jesus Christ opens the Seventh Seal of Revelation, God declares that the final three and one-half years of great tribulation will begin, and man’s self-rule will be brought to an end.
  • Page 129: Therefore, on this last day of the three and one-half years of great tribulation,
  • Page 174: Not only that, God also will move the spirit world to facilitate in limiting the great tribulation to exactly three and one-half years.
“2008 God’s Final Witness” Rear Cover

Back to other contradictions.  On page 8, 2nd paragraph:

Why should anyone believe what is written in either book? Again, the answer is twofold. The answer is not in anything that is stated or written because words by themselves do not prove credibility and truth. That which man has written about God does not prove it is true. Only God Himself can prove what is true by bringing to pass exactly what He has said. Only the next few years can prove whether or not these two books are true and of God. If nothing happens, then you can know positively that this is complete fiction.

The verdict is “fiction” for those willing to take the book and reality at face value. These books are not of God. The events prophesied in the book have not come about exactly as stated.

Page 9, 1st full paragraph

These two witnesses of God, as recorded in the Book of Revelation, will do their work during the last three and one-half years of their lives, which is the same time period as the great and final tribulation that will come on the entire world. This period of time will begin with one-third of the United States being destroyed! More about this will be addressed later.

The 3 & 1/2 year period began on December 14, 2008. Yet one-third of the US has not lost to destruction.

For six millennia, God has been patient toward man’s unwillingness to listen to Him through His prophets. This has much to do with why God is once again—one last time—sending His prophets (His two witnesses) into the world in the most powerful way yet.

No evidence of such power has been manifested.

Page 11, 3rd paragraph:

These two witnesses will be the most formidable prophets God has ever used in all 6,000 years of human history.

In June of 2009, these “formidable” prophets attended a conference at which God was blasphemed, and fled rather than applying correction by using their Witness Powers granted in Revelation chapter 11.

Page 16, last paragraph:

It is now with boldness, confidence and great clarity that I give to you what God has given me. I am to announce, through God’s direct revelation, that I am one of those two witnesses. The other witness will be revealed to the world during the time of the great tribulation—within the final three and one-half years of man’s era.

The “other witness” was revealed to his church in a sermon during December of 2005, not by name but by reference to anyone who was familiar with Weinland. This sermon was posted on the church website for anyone who cared to listen to it.

Then his wife Laura was revealed officially to the world late in the day of April 17, 2008. But this was during the first aborted timeline. And it is still not the time of the great tribulation, even though we are into the 980-day subset and last two months of the 1260-day 3 1/2 year time ending May 27, 2012 (actually sunset on May 26).

Page 17, 2nd Paragraph:

Yes, the ETERNAL God, the God of Abraham has sent me to you. I am to state clearly that I am an end-time prophet, a prophet of the God of Abraham.

So Weinland is a prophet. And a prophet of the God of Abraham no less. Seems that these are not ordinary predictions he’s making, but prophesies revealed from God to us through Weinland.

Page 21, 3rd paragraph:

As was also covered in the first book, the Seventh Seal, at the time of this writing, has not yet been opened. When that seal is opened, you can rest assured, the final tribulation has arrived. God says that time will last for three and one-half years. Prophecy shows that one-third of the United States will be destroyed after this seal is opened.

The Seventh Seal was opened twice: first on March 18, 2008 and then again on November 14, 2008. We’re till waiting for the destruction of one-third of the US.

Page 21, 4th paragraph:

In addition, at the very end-time, God will give His two witnesses great power to accomplish the work He has for them to do. These two (and others who know them) know exactly the day when Jesus Christ will return. These two will know positively when God gives them this power, and from that time they know that exactly three and one-half years remain.

If Weinland knew positively that he was given power on April 17, 2008, then why did he decide in June of 2008 that the timeline really had not begun? The only exercise of Witness Powers has been to place death curses on critics and mockers. No such curse has had any effect.

Page 22:

So this verse clearly shows that these two anointed ones of God have a specific time to do the primary thrust of their work. They know the exact day that Jesus Christ will return because they know their final work will last exactly 1,260 days. It is exactly at this point that they will be killed: And when they [the two witnesses] shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit [Satan through his influence on men] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified [in Jerusalem]. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three and one-half days [via television], and their dead bodies shall not be allowed to be put in graves. (Revelation 11:7-9)

Weinland has changed this twice since.  First he taught that his body lying in the streets of Jerusalem is witnessing, so he witnesses for 1256 1/2 days while alive and 3 1/2 days while dead. Whether or not one can testify while dead is a moot point, as the Bible states in Revelation 11 that their testimony will last 1260 days and will be accomplished while alive.

But then as the date of his death on May 23, 2012 approached, he changed his teaching again.  On April 21, 2012, he announced that he and his wife would not die in Jerusalem after all and would live right up until Christ’s return when they would be converted to spirit being.  Somehow their deaths are spiritualized as the 3 1/2 days being the 3 1/2 years leading up to Christ’s return on May 27, 2012.

Page 23, last paragraph:

As will be covered in another chapter, I know the exact day the Sixth Seal was opened, and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.

According to Weinland, the Seventh Seal was opened twice: March 18, 2008 and November 14, 2008. Do you remember any shocking events on either of those dates? Anything on the order of 9/11? If the world was shocked and in horror on either of those dates, you would remember the event without needing to research it.

Page 24, first sentence:

God has given to Jesus Christ the timing for the seals to be opened, and Jesus Christ, in turn, has given the timing to me.

So Ron got the timing wrong during the first timeline that opened the Seventh Seal on March 18, 2008? Or was it Jesus Christ who gave it to Ron incorrectly?  Shame on the elder brother for setting Ron up like that.

Page 24, third paragraph:

Indeed, the skepticism in those interviews about The Prophesied End-Time is understandable. However, God is going to begin removing the skepticism of the world, especially once the Seventh Seal is opened. You can listen to those interviews on the following website: http://www.the-end.com.

On March 6, 2009, Weinland had an interview with WLW’s Mike McConnnell. No decrease in Mike’s skepticism from earlier interviews in April of 2008 and March of 2007 was noted. You can download the latest interview from Weinland’s website.

Page 27, first paragraph:

Lying is the outcome of people being right in their own eyes and stubbornly holding to their own viewpoint, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

also Page 34, first paragraph:

But when it comes to what you believe, can you admit error when it is pointed out to you? Most people cannot, because interference with one’s personal religious beliefs is more than they can bear.

The previous quotes are ironic. Weinland and his followers refuse to admit the errors in the book.

Page 51, first full paragraph:

So what is the truth? This book is the truth! It is one of the primary things I do appreciate about the job God has given me. I am simply to state the truth as it is. I do not have to spend endless hours defending it, debating it or expounding upon it. The truth is simply the truth, and now, you can begin to see it more clearly and respond if you have any desire or hope to receive favor from God in the time of destruction that is almost upon us. Yes, this book is the truth. God is about to prove that this book is telling the truth! He will do so with power unleashed beyond any that He has ever used to reveal to man that He is their Creator.

and from the last paragraph on Page 51:

Now is the time God has chosen to begin revealing Himself fully to this world.

What power? How has he revealed himself. No truth here.

Page 57, paragraph 3 and 4:

God’s two end-time prophets will exercise great power, both in power displayed on the earth and in power of the revelation of God—more than all other prophets combined. This is how momentous these times are which we have now entered.

As I have stated, I am one of those prophets, and I am also the spokesman of both. That which I am telling you is not of me; it is from the God of Abraham—the Almighty God of the Universe.

Weinland has not exercised or attempted to exercise any great powers, other than futile death curses on his mockers and critics, issued during sermons on April 19 and December 20 of 2008.

Page 58, paragraph 4:

God will prove whom He sends. Just as prophetic events will unfold with increasing power and frequency, so will I increase in power and recognition by others because of the job God has placed before me. It is God’s purpose, and He will do it. Either I am an eloquent, rationally-sounding lunatic or I am sent from God.

No prophetic events have unfolded with increasing power and frequency. “Lunatic” is correct. “Eloquent” and “rationally-sounding” not so much.

Page 60, first paragraph:

The opening of the Seventh Seal will serve as a warning to the world that the final end-time tribulation has come and that the return of Jesus Christ is now imminent—the final countdown for Christ’s return has begun!

No warning to the world went out either on either March 18th or November 14th of 2008 when the Seventh Seal opened during his first and second timelines.

Page 61, last paragraph:

At the opening of the Seventh Seal, the fulfillment of a physical duality will begin exactly when devastation strikes the United States first. This country is the focus for the beginning of great tribulation which will strike the earth in the final three and one-half years that precede the return of Jesus Christ, when He takes over the rule of all government on the earth. One-third of this nation will be destroyed at the onset.

However, when looking for evidence of the Great Tribulation, events anywhere in the World, not just the US are mentioned.

Page 75, from second paragraph in middle of page:

The angel, who carried the instruction from God to the first four angels of the Seventh Seal, told them that they could not begin to sound their trumpets until his job was finished. This angel sets the seal of God upon those whom God has finished training and made ready to serve in His new government. As of this very moment, there are some now living, whom God has finished training, who have been sealed. There are a very few others who are yet to complete that training, and as soon as they have, then they too will be sealed. When that sealing is complete, then the entire 144,000 will be sealed. Then, the Seventh Seal will be opened, and those four angels, who had been restrained, will blow their trumpets. The result will lead to the demise of the United States.

But from Ron’s blog post “Still Pentecost to Pentecost” made in May of 2013 at the 3rd failure of Jesus Christ to return on Ron’s schedule:

This process of sealing all those remaining who would be added in order to fulfill the complete count of 144,000 began on that Trumpets of 2008, but was not completed until Pentecost of 2012. Some were sealed on that day of Trumpets 2008, while others were sealed throughout the following 1335 days, including the very last day. During that period of time and into the period of “final witness,” some would still be tried and tested to determine the final individuals who were yet to be added to this specific count of those who would reign with Christ.

Since Ron claims the Seventh Seal opened in November of 2008, somewhat out of order here.

Page 86, first complete paragraph:

God has a twofold purpose for doing this. First, God is going to make a clear distinction, in His scattered Church, between who His true minister is, through whom He is working, and all other ministers with whom He is not working. This will serve as one final witness to the Church before the devastation of the great tribulation strikes the whole world at the opening of the Seventh Seal.

Let’s see.  The Seventh Seal has opened twice now, on March 18, 2008 and again on Nov 14, 2008.  Yet the Great Tribulation has not struck the whole world.

A bit further on page 86, it says “The timing for the Seven Thunders is during the period of the Sixth Seal.”  Keep that in mind when reading about the first phase of the fifth thunder on page 107.

Page 104, last paragraph:

God will humble the Church, and He will humble the world through end-time events described throughout this book. It is by this very means that God will reveal through whom He is now working. Specifically regarding His two end-time witnesses, it will be by the power given to them for destruction and plagues, not healing! Yes, this is the means that will help humble those who will yet be awakened to repentance in the environs of the scattered Church. Escalating deaths in the leadership of the scattered groups will serve as a witness of who it is through whom God is working.

No destruction or plagues attributed to the Witnesses. Deaths in the leadership of the scattered groups from the Worldwide Church of God have not escalated, despite the fact that the majority are well over the age of 50.

Page 107, 3rd paragraph continuing to page 108

I have also made a petition to the ETERNAL God of Abraham. My petition is that this first phase of the Fifth Thunder be fulfilled exactly as it is written here. This request is so that scattered brethren who are asleep might be awakened and know that God has granted them the opportunity to repent and return to Him at this time. Also, it is so that they may know that I am His end-time prophet, His spokesman for the two end-time witnesses. It will be revealed in a very short time whether I am God’s prophet or not, as well as whether scattered Church leaders are God’s ministers any longer or not. As stated in a previous chapter, either one of these is true or neither is true.

To make it absolutely clear, my petition covers more in regard to the scattered ministers. The most notable among them will be those who die toward the beginning. However, every minister who was scattered, who fails to repent early on and return to God (with me, as God’s minister, teaching them) will die during the final three and one-half years of great tribulation. They will not be in the first resurrection, and they will not see the millennial reign of God’s Kingdom on earth.

The most notable deaths early on, which are yet to come to pass, will be the two remaining television presenters in the Living Church of God. The sound of this thunder will be intensified by the early deaths of the leaders of the Philadelphia Church of God, the Restored Church of God and the Church of the Great God. Then, those in the largest scattered group, who think they have escaped, will be lifted up to believe that God is with them because they are so filled with pride. But, when that happens, the deaths of many in the United Church of God will begin.

How much more specific can one be to show that he is either of God, and indeed His prophet, or someone who has clearly stepped over the line to be dealt with by God in a speedy manner. Time will tell! And, you don’t have long to wait!

This is one section in the book that is glossed over by those not familiar with Armstrongism and the breakup of the Worldwide Church of God after the death of its founder, Herbert Armstrong. Numerous splinter groups formed as a result (“the scattering” in Weinland’s parlance). Weinland predicted the early deaths of 5 specific individuals prominent in various Armstrongite splinter groups to prove that he is indeed a prophet. These individuals and their churches are:

Look for quotes later on that show these “early deaths” were to happen prior the opening of the Seventh Seal. As of December, 2011 and well after the supposed opening of the Seventh Seal, all of these ministers are still alive.

Page 110, first paragraphs:

The Seven Thunders did not come from angels. John heard the sound of Seven Thunders. This was a message about an end-time prophet of God. The specifics of the Seven Thunders were left for this end-time in order to be declared—to be pronounced—by God’s end-time prophet, the spokesperson of the two end-time witnesses. More about this will be explained in the Sixth Thunder.

The Seven Thunders have much to do with how God will reveal His two witnesses. These thunders serve as a prelude to the final tribulation and the greater manifestation of those two witnesses.

followed by Page 111, 2nd through 4th paragraphs:

The question about how God has revealed His truth to me is a fair one. The answer that I am who I say I am will be given by the events described in both books coming true exactly as I have described. This will be the proof that I am God’s end-time witness and spokesman. But before great power is given to me to perform miraculous events similar to those of Moses (but with far greater power), once the Seventh Seal is opened and the final three and one-half years of worldwide tribulation begins, God has reserved these Seven Thunders for me to declare.

These Seven Thunders are a combination of God’s inspiration in me to know His purpose and being at one with Him concerning His will for this end-time. These thunders are largely a matter of my own choosing, which God has given to me since I am His spokesman and the one who will stand before Him to the whole world during this end-time (Revelation 11:4 & Zechariah 4:14).
All Seven Thunders are given as God’s proof that I am His end-time prophet.

Let’s review what the Seven Thunders are (from various pages in chapter 4 of “2008 – GFW”) :

  1. The First Thunder is the beginning terror of war for the end-time. This is war that is prophetic for the end-time.
  2. The Second Thunder is the increasing destruction generated by earthquakes.
  3. The Third Thunder is the growing destructiveness from weather.
  4. The Fourth Thunder is global economic upheaval.
  5. The Fifth Thunder is death. This Fifth Thunder is divided into three specific phases of death. (1) The first phase is death within the Church of God that was scattered. It will be specifically about a marked increase in the death of its leadership (the ministry). (2) The second phase will be a sudden escalation in the death of notable people in the world. (3) The third phase will be a sudden escalation of death in the world from plagues.
  6. The Sixth Thunder is the growing revelation of God’s end-time witnesses. That revelation is that I am the spokesman of God’s two end-time prophets—the spokesman of His two end-time witnesses.
  7. The Seventh Thunder is the accelerated revelation of God to man.

So all seven of the thunders are needed as proof that Weinland is a prophet. When pressed, an apologist for Weinland will point to a few recent events. However, there have not been any events for the first three thunders of a magnitude since “2008 – GFW” was published which are greater than those prior to the publication. Same for the 5th thunder. The only thunder with any credence is the economy, but it’s not of the scale prophesied by Weinland.

Weinland supposedly assumed great powers as he “began his job” as an End Time Witness (for the second time) on December 14, 2008. He has displayed no evidence of possession of these powers and now states that he won’t be using them until the 5th Trumpet blows (conquering of the US).

Page 115, last paragraph:

During the Sixth Seal, all Seven Thunders will be getting progressively louder. Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.

All Seven Thunders did not get progressively louder between the publishing of the book in Nov 2006 and the opening of the Seventh Seal in March and then again in November of 2008. An apologist points to the last sentence — the seven thunders roar loudly only in the ears of Weinland’s followers who are willing to ignore the truth.

Page 117, last sentence and continuing to page 118:

This first powerful event of the Seventh Seal will result in wide-spread destruction over the United States and beyond her border into Canada. The destruction in Canada will be less, but she will experience repercussions from what will happen in the U.S.; because she is a neighbor, as well as a prophetic brother. When we are told that a third of all plant life will be destroyed, that is exactly what it means. The actual event will not be disclosed until it is time for it to happen. As with all the Seals of Revelation, many of the specifics of each of the Seven Trumpets will not be revealed until it is time for the actual events to take place. It should also be noted, that in the first trumpet there is fire mingled with blood. Blood means there will be much death when this event occurs. Most of it will be the death of animals and birds, but also a large number of people will die—into the tens of thousands.

It’s more than 40 months since the Seventh Seal was opened for the second time on November 14, 2008. Still no evidence of wide-spread destruction.

Weinland has attempted to spiritualize the first trumpet as being loss of green American currency. He has stated that if the first trumpet ever does materialize, the destruction of vegetation will not be of all vegetation, just that in localized areas.

Page 199, first paragraph:

The reason this book and The Prophesied End-Time have so much to say about specific events that will take place in the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdom, and much of western Europe is that these nations are very specifically identified as the descendents of those lost ten tribes of Israel! End-time events focus first on the demise of these nations over the next couple of years. These events have everything to do with knowing the true God of Abraham.

A “couple” is two.  With the book having been released in November 2006, and the demise of not a single one of these nations having occurred over 5 years later, we can put this one to bed as a failed prophecy.

Also, note that with this statement Weinland indicates that the Seven Thunders apply primarily to the modern-day nations of Israel.

Page 244, 2nd full paragraph:

When this book is published at the end of summer of 2006, (with distribution in full swing in the fall), there will be a maximum time of two years remaining before the world will be plunged into the worst time of all human history.

“2008 – God’s Final Witness” contradicts itself immediately as it was not published until the fall of 2006, being released to the printer on November 14. Hard copies were not available for several more months, so the book was available only as a PDF download from the Internet. Amazon.com lists the publication date as June 1, 2007.

Page 244, 3rd full paragraph:

By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time. There is a marginal, six-month window of time that God has not yet revealed concerning this specific moment of time. This will be revealed some time soon after the distribution of this book begins.

This is the only specific date in the book. As of June 21, 2009 (6 months after the end of the fall season of 2008), the United States was still an independent nation.  And well over two years after that, are German soldiers marching through the streets in your town?

From the Prophesied End Time

Page 34, 4th paragraph: (speaking of the Seventh Seal)

The prophecies concerning this specific portion of end-time devastation are not recorded in specific numbers of people, but in percentages of population. If 300 million were the combined total, 200 million, or two-thirds, would die in the first several months. Of the remaining 100 million, only 10 percent, 10 million, would survive to live on into the new world at Jesus Christ’s coming. The devastation and loss of life in certain areas of the world are even greater than this.

It’s been more than several months since the Seventh Seal opened for the second time, and no such die-off has happened.

Page 39, 2nd paragraph:

When the two witnesses begin to tell the world that the time of the end has come, they will have great power to back up their words—what they say comes from God, for only God can perform what they prophesy.

No evidence that the Weinlands have any great powers. Now Weinland says his powers won’t arrive until the 5th trumpet.  Which he later stated might not occur until August of 2011.  And now acknowledges hasn’t happened yet, and indicates may happen during the last few days before Christ returns in May.  Some witnessing.

Page 43, 2nd and 3rd paragraphs:

Before this book reveals more of the specifics of end-time events, culminating in world war, more about these two witnesses must first be explained, since they come on the scene first, before World War III erupts.

God declares, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” (Revelation 11:3). These two will prophesy of events that are coming, and their message will be reinforced by the power of God Almighty, through signs and miracles, mostly in the form of plagues and control over weather. By this means, God will be revealing that these two are His witnesses and that it is the end-time, the end of man’s 6,000 year reign on earth.

Recently, Ron states that he doesn’t know or doesn’t have the “foggiest idea” of what’s going to happen. So much for prophesying.  As far as signs and miracles, he “refuses” to use his powers for anything so trivial as proving that he is a true prophet of God.

Page 44, 4th paragraph:

The time for the coming of these two witnesses of God is revealed by the opening of the Seventh Seal of Revelation. The work of these two prophets of God will commence at the same time that the Seventh Seal of Revelation is opened. Six seals have already been opened at the time of this writing.

Weinland changed his prophesies to allow a 30 day “half hour of silence” between the opening of the Seventh Seal and the Witnesses commencing their work.

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161 thoughts on “2008 – God’s Final Witness

  1. Um thanks anyway Kejamo. I’m all set with “paradise”. As far as I am concerned that is where I live.

    Have fun in Hawaii. Hope you don’t go flinging yourself into a volcano or anything because voices in your head tell you to. Just enjoy the pretty water and the pretty flowers…


  2. I think this is what they were talking about in the Bible with their predictions of False Christs and false prophets. Actions speak louder than words, and it seems to me that his main action is probably taking money out of
    his flock’s pockets.

    Kids these days, haha…


  3. Reposted from other thread (to be sure avalo had a chance to read it…Mike, I *’d out the profanity as I realized after I posted it that you probably want to keep this site PG)

    Avalo, go f*** yourself. Seriously…go f*** yourself. Do I actually plan on doing that? Of course not! I HAVE WITNESSED FIRST HAND WHAT THIS SICK F___, WEINLAND, DOES TO PEOPLE. HAVE YOU?? I lived w/my friend during his transformation. I saw him filling milk jugs w/tap water and stockpiling canned food (in 2008!!!!)

    Oh..that’s right. You’re just some random internet commenter who feels f___ing awesome that they’re anonymously sticking it to yet another in a long line of charlatans throughout history. Bet that makes you feel strong, doesn’t it? I’m sitting here wondering if my friend is going to commit suicide over this. Remember? Mental breakdown? His dad is so schizophrenic that he couldn’t even live with him after his mom died (when he was 18). He’s turned off his phone.

    Seriously. Go f***yourself.


  4. Here some words from The Netherlands,

    I am really interested in end-time things, but more in the truth. I was really cureous, but am glad he was wrong….


  5. … Hey! Wow! Apparently we are all still here … thanks be to someone’s g/God (ain’t I just so PC). So what is the next false prophecy of doom? I am only familiar with the Mayan Calendar prediction for December 2012 (date???). Check it and the many other 2012 predictions at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon. While reading the article, may I draw your attention to the stuff about the dawning of a new spiritual age in 2012. Now that is something I could really get into. Wouldn’t it be cool if the re-election of Barrack Obama was the first event. To all my friends and foes on the rabid right, yes, I am a socialist … a free market socialist (more commonly known as a “mixed” economy). And a mixed economy is what all of the top 20 countries in the world in terms of every measure of living standard and wealth have in common … Coincidence? I think not. Ironic that the two largest economies (neither of which ranks in the top 20) still cling to their myths;, one a free market fantasy and the other a communist calamity. Oh, but I digress… I suggest we stop beating this thread right meow and move on to the next one. If someone has a link to a thread on the next end of world prediction for 2012, please post it here as the last and most fitting comment in this dead thread. Hope to read ya’ll in the next thread. Peace out!


  6. The book’s title is: “2008 – God’s Final Witness.” Mr. Weinland did state in the book that in the Fall of 2008 something bad was going to happen…..something awful DID HAPPEN. That’s when most lost their 401-K’s and retired with “zero.” My sister-in-law was one of them. Plus, Obama was elected. Almost as soon as the Fall began is when the 401-K’s went bye-bye. Soooo, these are two things that happened in the Fall of 2008. Also, these horrible tornadoes we’ve constantly been having are very bad/weird. Some are double and triple cones coming down. Anyway, just wanted to mention that SOMETHING BAD DID HAPPEN IN THE FALL OF 2008, as the book foretold.


  7. Sherry, we’re not going to discuss side topics. Explain how the following prophecy from the last page of his book came true:
    “By the fall of 2008, the United States will have collapsed as a world power, or it will have begun its collapse and no longer exist as an independent nation within six months after that time.”

    Oops. Didn’t happen. Fail.

    Sherry something bad is going to happen. “Something bad” is always going to happen. Prophesying “something bad” does not make you a true prophet of God. Prophesying something specific in the name of the God of Abraham that doesn’t come true makes Ron a false prophet.

    Did Christ return on May 27? FAIL!!!


  8. Most of these false prophets, including Ron, are doing what they always do, and that included WCG, they use The “Ole Carrot On The Stick Routine”

    It seems like some of the COGs are repeating the same ole “Schtick”; it is the “Carrot on the Stick” game; it is a game that the false christian churches use also, it ties in to “Flee from the wrath to come”, and put your money in a place where it will help God (Us), but yet their main focus is to keep people alarmed and afraid of the near future, so that they will think that they can buy their way in to the kingdom, and many people indeed fall for the fool’s gold tongued Jimmy Swaggers, Jimmy Jones, Jimmy Baker Buns, and the “Jimmy the Locks” characters, that very often pop up to beguile gullible people.

    This is the same ole “carrot on the stick” routine
    that the Royal Canadian Mounted Policeman (RCM) and other Ministers (To their billfolds) have been using for years,
    keeping the date close, but not close enough to alarm people enough to get to
    worried; or not close enough to do away with their building projects or
    building funds.

    Some others go to the opposite extreme of putting things (The End
    of the age), far in to the future, so that they can live out their
    lives in peace security and wealth at the expense of the brethren;
    but they don’t know the times either.

    Some of these self ministering men have been using the same
    tactics for 50 years or more, saying the end could be in 5-7 years,
    or 10-15 years, or 7-10 years ad-nauseum, but even though they say
    these things, they have no compunction at all about living in a very
    high life style that they have extorted from well meaning sheep by
    the fear tactics that they use

    Sorta like WCG, “Times short, dig in, shell out, so we can get out
    the last ditch warning to the world and then go merrily off to
    wonderful “Petra”; but meanwhile don’t forget the building fund, and I’ll raise my salary
    to $553,000 and use other “Payoff” money wisely.

    Theres no fool like an old fool, if we keep listening to their self-serving drivel.

    The truth of the matter is, that we need to always be alert, alert to our own spiritual condition, for “we know not to day nor the hour”

    The truth of the matter is, that these “shepherds” need to quit throwing out various emplied at, and guesses about the times of
    the end, and to rather believe (Acts 1:7)


  9. I like how he keeps changing dates and making up excuses. Recently I was looking at his site, stating “May 27,2012.”- “The Return of Christ”, and I immediately wondered why almost nothing he had prophsised had happened. I started reading “The Prophesised End-Time” and was alarmed by what I read- at first I convinced myself he was indeed correct, naive enough to believe what I was reading typed on my computer screen. There is ample evidence that Ronald is a FAKE! And THAT is the truth!

    A much better read- birdflubook.com. That actually is believable! 🙂
    from Lilia Baroque


  10. I have been a student and teacher of Eschatology for many years. I read Ron’s books as I do most anything that comes out claiming to know the TRUTH about end times and could see what a fraud he is. As my elementary school teacher wife told me once (yes elementary school teachers have profound wisdom), Satan will tell you 99 truths to get you to believe just 1 lie, oh but what a whopper that 1 is. Yeshua states uniquivacally that in the end many “FALSE” teachers/prophets will come in his name and lead the sheep astray. Ron is one big liar and a great deceiver. He has a great handle on the prophetic word and uses it to sprinkle truth and reason with current events to hook his followers, many of which I assume do not read the Bible for themselves or they would have seen so many inconsistencies in his “predictions” etc.

    The problem is that when people get “hooked” into believing a false teacher (which is what he is, he is not a prophet of any kind, just teaches some truth with his lies) and then released when they open their eyes to see and their ears to hear, they get disillusioned with the written word of YHWH because of the person who used it for personal gain and turn away from the real truth of what is going on. The fact is that much of what the Church of God taught/teaches about adhering to the Sabbath, the Hebrew festivals etc, and the paganism within the Greco/Roman Church system, is quite true. And I truly believe that as children of the light, we should be ready when we are led to understand that we are on the last watch and that the thief is on his way to destroy what he can. It is our duty to blow the trumpet and warn folks of the coming events and prepare them for the coming of our Lord. Much of the events outlined in the propheitic word on end time events is happening right now in front of us, but with false teachers like Ronald Weinland out there it is confusing and disillusioning believers and causing a a “great falling away”, just like the false teaching of the pre-trib rapture is doing and will do when the man of perdition is actually revealed and the tribulation to come actually hits us in the face. My only last comment is that when someone like Ron Weinland stands up and “claims” to be a great prophet, especially one of the big two that are forthcoming, whom every decent Bible student should know is going to be the same two as they appeared in the transfiguration with Yeshua, just run away for they lead you to destruction and steal from you the joy and peace that comes with true understanding.

    Ron will get his eternal punishment, just move on and do some home study with lots of prayer and wait on the Holy Spirit to guide you in your daily walk. As a former banker I can give you another bit of advice, “follow the money”. When there is a great speaker/teacher/leader gathering cash from their followers, walk away, they are in it for themselves. The model to follow is Billy Graham, may God Bless HIS Soul mightitly, he set up a non-for profti foundation and gets a salary – period. No jewelry for the wife for “barter”, what BS and arrogance. ch


  11. Thumbs up to ( some ) your comments , there chuck herold, but I disagree with the end – times theory …….. Revelation ( in the back of the Bible ), is not meant to be understood fully, much less preached about, nor interpreted , nor added to, nor subtracted from , until God’s time, ( as we are reminded ) , as in the preface…… ( death shall come to those whom try to explain it ) , alot has to go down , and many years still have to pass before the return of Christ, none shall know, until the time, ……. but its wise to be prepared !, for one’s own end . 😀


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  13. I have my Google News set to capture news items on tngihs like eschatology and evolution, and I came across Weinland’s books a few weeks ago. Of course, I downloaded his latest book to see if he actually exegeted the scriptures in order to calculate the dates. From what I could tell, there wasn’t much (if any). No calculations either. Just another example of newspaper eschatology.Oh, yeah he reminds me of Harold Camping, who wrote 1994?. When the rapture didn’t happen in 1994, he said his calculations were a bit off and revised the rapture date to 1995. A few years back, he wrote a new book, predicting 2011 to be the end of the world. (Interestingly enough, he dated the creation of the world at 11,013 BC. How he got that, I’ve no clue.)


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  16. Too spectacular a topic to end in 2014. The need for answers seems to always out weight the need for genuine authenticity. As long the future remains linked to our nature to fear it, people continue to attempt to lead in this Ron Weinland type of fashion. Hopefully, something can be learned from this man’s life and work. All be it not exactly in the ways he might like.


  17. I’m not sure where this guy gets his idea that Jesus Christ had NOT eternally existed before his human birth. There are so many scriptures which indicate that Christ DID in fact exist from eternity, along with God, who later became known as his Father. He claims that God never really revealed to Mr. Armstrong the truth about this, but again where did he get that information? I think he’s gotten himself all mixed up and tripping all over the place with all these names and definitions of God. Jesus told his disciples, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”. If Jesus did NOT pre-exist before his human birth, then how could He have witnessed that event, which occurred before man was even created? And that’s only one of MANY scriptures I could cite. Weinland claims that there are verses you can “read” things into if you choose to do so, but interestingly he doesn’t include any of these in his book.


  18. Just to say about the part where the author of this blog was questioning about whether or not Christ misled Ron He didn’t, that can be assured. There will be many who claim they are of Him yet are not. Besides only the Father knows the e act date of Christ’s 2nd coming.


  19. After extensive research, I’ve concluded that Mr. Weinland is correct in saying that Jesus Christ did not exist rom eternity. Only God, YHVH. has immortality and only God existed from eternity. However, it is clear that Christ did exist in some form before His human birth, but NOT as God, or as a member of the God family, Elhoim. He could only have been a spirit creation of God, apparently God’s first creation, in other word, an angel.


  20. This presents a lot of problems. Only God can forgive sins, yet Christ forgave sins when he was on earth.

    An angel can not forgive somebody their sins…..

    There are too many other points to enumerate….


  21. Cory ~ loser weinland is not correct! Did you research “all” of his failed predictions? If you are a liar in one thing then you are a liar in all.


  22. Another quick point (there are many), Christ was worshiped by demon possessed people as well as regular people. An angel would be sinning to accept any of that, you find in the bible any time an angel is incorrectly worshiped by somebody that the angel will tell him/her to stop doing so. But Christ never did so, He accepted their worship, the only answer that will allow this without Christ sinning is that Christ was God.


  23. Ron’s heresy that Christ did not pre-exist would mean that Christ sinned, because at that time, when he was human and not YET in the God Family, accepting the worship of humans would have been a sin.


  24. Martin,

    This is my opinion.

    I believe that Cory is baiting anyone who will engage him or her. This person could be a pkger, so, don’t cast your pearls before the swine.

    Cory you want to engage in conversation then do so. Understand this, none is interested in weinland’s theology. Only interested in exposing this fraud for what he really is – a liar and a thief –


  25. Martin:

    Got it!

    The both us of understand that loser weinland’s theology is fraught with errors. Since the attempt by these two weirdo false witnesses failed in shutting this website down they (warrior members) are employing a new tactic and that is to bait the commentors here to engage in theological debate. If successful, this would become their platform to curbed the criticism.

    Keep in mind, these false weirdos (weinlands) do understand that this site is vocal and has the evidence to back it claims up. Believe me, this has their attention and any tactic to divert the truth against them will be attempted.

    They (weinlands) are desperate because they have become stagnant and the public and cog’s are aware of their goals and intentions to deceive for the purpose of their own personal gains.


  26. PKGers should think about it….if Ron the false prophet Weinland can’t shut one tiny web site down, how is he going to be correcting the world?

    It’s laughable. He boasted about how when the Great Tribulation started, he and his gossiping lazy wife would be empowered to correct the nations.

    PKGers, you should ask yourselves, why has this not happened yet? The answer (from Ron’s own mouth)



  27. Good points.

    I know of the desire of some of the membership for proof of weinland’s claims. There are questions as to why the Nov 2015 did not happen and when loser weinland stated that when his book was completed that would be the day of empowerment and Johnny Harrell stated the same thing. Well, here we are and nothing has happened at all!!

    It has been the same pattern that started in 2008. Failure after failure and then some lame brained excuse as to why it did not happen, but, would come at a later date!

    It has always been this way with loser weinland one lie after another! I am of the opinion that pkg is on the brink of collapse. It is true, that the majority is hanging onto 6/9/19; but only barely. When they see that nothing is happening, as time goes on, then they will realize that loser weinland is just that – a false prophet –

    Hopefully they will realize it sooner and leave!


  28. First Ron and his acolytes “bragged” about how he would be empowered at the BEGINNING of the Great Tribulation (while he was still in jail for tax theft).

    Didn’t happen.

    Then “they” changed their minds, Ron would be empowered when he was released from prison.

    Didn’t happen.

    Then “they” decided Ron would be empowered when he finished writing his failure of a book.

    Didn’t happen.

    PKGers, do you see a pattern?


  29. Ron is too much of a coward to even post a “warning” here.

    After his visit to Idea City, the coward could only muster enough courage to send a vaguely threatening email to the promoter or host. He could have said, you’re going to die by fire as God commanded, but no, only a vague threat by a mousey coward in an email, not even face to face.

    No, Ron is a powerless coward.


  30. Ron “ust so we understand very well, it can go longer. It can go longer, brethren. I don’t
    know if I can. I don’t know how long this is going to last, but I know it’ll last as long as God wants it
    to, okay? What kind of faith do we live by?”

    By longer, he means beyond 2019. So he’s telling PKG that 2019 might not happen.

    I feel sad for these PKGers. Ron could lie through his teeth till he drops dead, and they will still follow him.

    I wonder if Ron knows about how false prophets will be dealt with? It won’t be good.


  31. As all of us have stated: loser weinland doesn’t have a clue!!! Brexit really screwed up his timeline!!! As a matter of fact, it should have been in his latest timeline and guess what!? It was not!!!!

    lies lies and more lies!!!


  32. It appears that “time is running out” for loser weinland.

    To manage multiple lies is a very difficult thing to do. Once you establish a lie, or more, they are always waiting to ambush you when you least expect it. It seems that loser weinland is being ambushed by all of his lies, deceit, and falsehoods!!!

    Time to pay your dues loser weinland!!!!


  33. From : Herbert W. Armstrong, Pt. 4 – Ronald Weinland
    Ron said ” I believe again with all my being and have everything geared toward that that it is 2019. But I’m geared to go on farther if I have to, if God wants me to. Are you? How far will you go? What will you do? Does it cause consternation, stress, embarrassment if something doesn’t happen in a certain way at a certain time? Because I’ll tell you what, with the way things are happening in the world, if God has a purpose for doing something and if something goes on and He said, “No, you’ve got another little distance to go yet because certain nations aren’t quite ready, certain things aren’t quite ready…” and then you say, “Oh, well, you told us 2019! You told us 20…! You told us 2013!” Yes, I did”

    I think Ron must be missing a lot of brain cells.

    Ron claims to be one of the two witnesses, says Christ is coming in 2019, says God gave him these calculations (which are faulty, Ron’s god can’t count it seems) that show 2019 is the absolute date.

    Ron is basically saying that 2019 is the absolute date……MAYBE…..

    Maybe it will be 2019, maybe not, maybe I won’t survive, maybe I’ll fulfill some prophecies that are spoken about in Rev 11, maybe not, maybe it will be in the last few months that things will happen, maybe not.

    Ron has a forked tongue. Ron couldn’t speak the truth if he wanted to. Ron is like a snake with his forked tongue. Only lies come out. No proof for any of his claims whatsoever. Not one. Not the tiniest bit.

    Ron’s lazy wife is useless. Doesn’t speak. Will never speak to leaders of the world or correct them. Loves her jewelry and expensive paintings and Fredrik’s of Hollywood panties.

    Neither has fulfilled a single prophecy except one. That of false prophets deceiving many.


  34. Martin, the message from the above quote is pretty clear – “I (Ron) have made false predictions about Christ’s return on more than one occasion. Get used to it. Keep on hoping, obeying all my demands, and, above all, contributing to my family’s lifestyle and my retirement fund. There is no salvation for you if you don’t comply in every detail.”

    Did I misrepresent you, Ron?


  35. I was just speaking the other day with someone who was once part of PKG, and we came to the conclusion that if those that are left in PKG don’t leave after the impending failure of 2019——-then all hope is lost and they’ll never leave.

    So sad as it’s VERY obvious to me (it took a bit) to see that both Ron and Laura are COMPLETE FRAUDS, and their complete end should be swift and sudden.

    Sounds kinda harsh, but they’ve ruined so many lives both financially and emotionally, it’s sickening. Now of course he’s backpedaling because it’s plain for all (at least those with their eyes open) to see that this is yet another false prophet lunatic only in it for the money.

    Out of his own mouth he pretty much said that he was “wrong”, but he qualifies it by saying that God has “more work for us to do”.

    How blasphemous can you be?? Putting words in God’s mouth because you think you’re untouchable!

    We’ll see………………


  36. lies lies and more lies!!!!!

    I sense that loser weinland is becoming desperate, and also, I am of the opinion that loser weinland knows that his health (heart) is not doing well. Adding up all the stress of traveling and trying to keep the “grand lie” going is having an effect on his heart . It will be difficult to pass the family business over to jeremy and audra. This scam is coming to its end and the both of them know it.

    I take into consideration of what Gamaliel stated in Acts 5. Once loser weinland llife’s ends, which it will, then everything collapses. So now the game is to get as much money as he can so his incompetent wife can continue to live off of money that was stolen from those that loser weinland decieved.

    Loser weinland knows he is wrong and his fears of losing everything is near by. So the game plan now is to convince what is left is to stay and keep giving money!! This is my opinion loser weinland, the stress and fear will be to much for your heart and your health will decline and bring it to its end.

    My advise is this, it’s time to tell the truth and take the consequences while you are alive. Even the world knows that men and women with evil doings, such as the both you, will pay the price for what they have done to a higher power. You and your wife are evil and the both of you will have that judgement to face.


  37. Well Johnny here we are.

    You defended the lie of 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013, and now 2019. How many more lies will you defend?

    Surely you understand that the longer you keep doing this you will never reclaim any credibility what so ever. Is it really worth it to associate yourself with a liar? That is something you will be judged on. You have made this bed for yourself and I hope you ask yourself in the end this question, “was it worth it to destroy my credibility”?


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