Family: Coming Out of Bondage Pt 3

Ron wore out a couple of #2 pencils with this post.  Maybe I’m having an affect on his bottom line, as it seems I’m one of the “bloggers who lie” and therefore am the cause of much human suffering.

When beginning to address this subject, it was stated that “women experiencing labor pain at birth has very little to do with the curses that came upon Adam and Eve after they sinned.” Having labor pain while giving birth involves a very slight portion of the “pain” a woman experience in a lifetime. In fact, let’s consider an example of a woman who has four children, in which she experienced 12 hours of “labor pain” with each birth, and then combine this with the 70 years of physical life God has allotted mankind. Yes, the “physical pain” of labor can be very intense, but its impact upon suffering over a lifetime is quite small.

With such an example of a 70-year lifespan, the actual experience of pain would constitute far less than .001 % of a woman’s life. Said another way, it is experiencing suffering 2 days out of 25,550 days of life. Experiencing such labor pain within a woman’s physical lifetime is so negligible that it becomes more like trying to compare 70 years of human life with ever lasting life in God’s Family. Although there really is no way to compare such a small figure to everlasting life, the point of the comparison should ring true in the sense that such moments of suffering compared to the “whole” life experience of someone isn’t really a great concern in one’s life.

From the outlook of most people, the “experience” of carrying a child and then giving birth through a “short” time of actual physical labor is not looked upon as a “curse.” On the contrary, giving birth is considered a great blessing in life. The desire to have a family and children in that family (if a couple so chooses) often involves much planning, excited anticipation, and tremendous joy. Once a woman then passes the “time experienced” in actual pain of labor, a very great excitement and happiness enters life upon the birth of one’s own child. It is a very unique and incredibly miraculous experience of human life, and it is not to be viewed in any context as having any relationship to a curse.

Healing
Although the experience of physical pain in human life can be very unpleasant, the actual pain from suffering within the human mind can be much greater. Mental and emotional suffering come from a vast array of causes, all of which stem from sin and the curses that mankind has brought upon themselves. Many of these are simply passed down generation to generation or have even come as a result of what has been handed down from degenerating bodies (genes) as a result of curses and sin.

Although it is only very partial, the following list shows the kind of depth for causes and effects to human suffering and wrong experiences in life that cause such suffering (mental, emotional, and physical): betrayal, angry encounters, jealousy, envy, loss of the life of loved ones, sexual abuse, verbal abuse, arguments, false accusations, racism, robbery, countless diseases, cheating, adultery, fornication, HIV, rage, cancers, financial loss and struggle, obesity, depleted and contaminated foods, countless additives and chemicals in foods, indebtedness, divorce, unemployment, hostile work environment, oppression, murders, thefts, warfare, gossip, gambling addiction, oppressive government, corruption in government and business, false accusations, being maligned, daily pressures and stress of life, bloggers who lie, disloyalty, bad relationships, drug addiction, alcoholism, road rage, terrorism, pornography, greed, misuse of the Internet, malnutrition, deformities, bullying, controlling, fearfulness, phobias, evil, etc., etc. How many of these have been part or much of your experience in life? There seems to be no end to the means for human suffering that occupies so much of life. The real curses of life are overflowing, especially in this age of technology where sin is so easily multiplied.

There is countless suffering that can occupy much of one’s experience in human life. It can be so adverse and intense against one’s well being that it can and does affect one’s actual physical health in such a negative manner that it can lead to greater susceptibility to diseases, immune deficiencies, circulatory and heart problems, digestive problems, mental disorders, alcohol and drug abuse (which in turn cause physical disorders), etc. Mental and emotional suffering interferes with the proper functioning and balanced harmony God created to exist in the human body. The “way we think” does quite literally affect the state of our health.

So far we have only scratched the surface of what we can learn from what happened in the beginning with Adam and Eve. It is important to dig deeper into what is said about this account of the first sin in human life. Sin “infects” the way we think. It is a spiritual matter, just as when Lucifer first sinned and God said that he had basically destroyed (perverted, diseased) his own precious mind that God had given him when he was created. Like a physical disease, sin sickens the mind and adversely spreads into one’s life by producing curses due to the “way” one thinks and then lives life according to that wrong thinking. Only when God “calls” someone into His Church can one begin to “come out” of sin – to come out of bondage from spiritual Egypt.

When God begins to transform the mind by bringing one out of sin, He actually begins the process of healing the mind. God speaks of this healing in different ways, and there is one location in scripture where this process is well defined:

“I (the Eternal) have seen his ways (pride-filled mankind, whose ways are not God’s), and will heal him (the mind must begin to be healed in order to develop right thinking), and I will also lead him (in His true ways), and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners (God’s plan is to heal the mind in order to produce blessings – comforts – in life and to remove the suffering and mourning that is produced from sin – from curses). I create the fruit of the lips (God’s transformation and creation of Elohim produces good fruit – blessings – that are reflected in all that is spoken from the lips, which reveals the thinking of the mind). Peace, peace to him that is far off (to those who will be called later in time, especially those in the Great White Throne period), and to him that is near (called now and being worked with now), and I will heal him. But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest (sin never satisfies but leads to greater lust and sin, and it never produces good results, but unrest), whose waters cast up mire and dirt (those who live in sin cannot have true peace and blessings in life, but cast up more sin and filth into life). There is no peace, says my God, to the wicked (to those who live in their own way – in sin)” (Is. 57:18-21).

Sin begets more sin and produces more suffering and sorrow in life. Satan sinned by influencing Eve to turn against God and disobey Him. Eve sinned and that influenced Adam to sin. The choice of sin led to even more sin in their thinking. Only God can reverse this spiritually cancerous state of wrong thinking in mankind. But sadly, people become accustomed to suffering in human life as though it is “normal,” but it is abnormal and not what God desires for human life. God’s desire is the way that produces peace – spiritual Jerusalem.

God reveals the kinds of curses that result from sin – that result from disobedience to His ways. He also reveals the kinds of blessings that result from obedience. Both are opposite to each other, just as good is to bad, or righteousness is to wickedness.

The vast majority of curses that have come upon mankind are a direct result of disobedience to laws that are in motion in life; however, there are curses that are the result of God’s intervention and direct punishment because of overflowing sin. In like manner, there are blessings in life that result from obedience to God’s laws (even when people are ignorant of those laws, but happen to “live” something that is in agreement or unity with God), and there are also blessings that result from God’s direct intervention upon His people when they have received some “special” favor from Him. The blessings poured out upon the scattered nations of Israel over the past few centuries are the result of promises God made to those who did receive special favor (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph) as part of His purpose to be worked out before His Kingdom would be established. These nations of people did not receive these blessings because of any “good” they lived by being in agreement with God.

The main point of all this is that there are blessings and cursings reaped in life because of how people choose to live life. There are laws in motion that produce specific results that come from the way people think and then choose to live. Then there are also blessings and cursings that God sometimes gives by His direct intervention in life.

Sin Infected the Mind
As it was stated earlier, sin infects the mind and spreads into “life” like a disease. So what happened after Adam and Eve sinned?

Any who actually give consideration to this account do not dig very deep nor do they consider the deeper matter of the consequences of sin. In addition, when considering what God said to Eve after she sinned, the account is generally seen as “physical” in nature. Focusing on such things from a “physical” viewpoint is all mankind can actually do. They cannot see what is spiritual. So when it came to what was said to the woman, it is taken to be primarily speaking physically as a matter of physical labor pain at birth, but this account goes far beyond such “limited” thinking.

This inability to “see” what is spiritual is similar to the example I often reference when Christ was speaking to the woman at the well. Christ spoke of being able to give her “living” water, but she only saw it as physical and of her no longer having to fetch water daily at the well.

In this account of the first human sin, there is another matter that is addressed first before God pronounced what the curses were that resulted from their sin. It has to do with what happened in their mind – in their thinking – once they had sinned. As soon as they had sinned, right away something happened in their minds. By sinning, they had polluted, damaged, and adversely infected the precious mind God had created in them.

Right after it states that they took of the forbidden fruit and ate of it, it goes on to say what happened next – the beginning result of sin:

“And the eyes of both of them were opened…” (Gen. 3:7). They “saw” something different from “the way” that God had created them to see – in unity with Him. They began to “see” in their “own way” which was different from God. Their mind was diseased and defiled as it turned from God. What happened next? “And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew (began to believe something different) they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves a covering” (Gen. 3:7).

The result of the very first sin was that their thinking became distorted and it turned them more inward in matters concerning self. Sin created a sense of shame and embarrassment. It is good to consider the dictionary definition of some words used here that help to illuminate this condition.

Embarrassment: perplexity; a confusion or discomposure of mind.

Perplexity: A confused or disturbed mental condition.

Shame: A painful (adverse) emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety in one’s behavior.

These words help clarify the reality of something that is experienced in the mind. It is the result or affect upon the mind from sin. These explain quite well what happens to a mind that engages in sin. However, mankind does not like the experience of such emotions or feelings, so the carnal tendency is to distance one’s self from God – to hide from God. Another perverse solution of mankind is to plunge oneself more deeply into sin and do so repeatedly in order to not have a sense of wrongdoing or in order to grow in the ability to ignore such responses. It is in this manner that mankind actually sears their thinking – their mind. Paul speaks clearly of this very thing: “Who by speaking lies in hypocrisy have their own conscience seared with a hot iron” (1 Tim. 4:2). This word for “sear” in the Greek means to brand (cauterize) in the sense of rendering insensitive.

Why Naked?
As soon as they sinned, the mind of Adam and Eve turned to what might seem to be a rather perplexing response. They knew they were naked. But before they had sinned they were naked – they had no covering on their bodies. So what changed in their thinking (mind) and why did they have such a response of now seeing themselves without a covering over their bodies? More to the point, what did they seek to cover and from whom?

This was not about any concern they had toward Satan, but toward their Creator God. They knew they had disobeyed Him. They knew He had told them they should not eat of the forbidden tree. The shame and embarrassment of sin and of having to possibly face God in this matter is something that human nature responds to in a rather predictable and expected manner. This is much like how a child will respond to a parent when they know they have done wrong. The response is to hide or try to cover up what actually happened. This is very basic to a normal carnal response.

However, with this being the first sin in minds that had been created pure, their initial response was magnified many times over. Adam and Eve did not have the experience of life from an infant forward, but they began in adulthood with pure, uncorrupted minds. They did not have the time and experiences through childhood and teen life to “learn” how to ignore the conscience (wrong doing) in order to please self and get one’s way. For Adam and Eve, this first carnal experience in sin so disturbed and confused their emotional and mental reaction (brought such disorder to their thinking) that they turned to the one thing that unsettles the human mind most in the way God created man and woman. It is indeed a matter of sex.

[Part 4 will continue next week]

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70 thoughts on “Family: Coming Out of Bondage Pt 3

  1. And what if 3 CoG ministers die? Will you consider that David Pack is a true minister?

    (David Pack has made no claims to being a prophet, he is simply explaining prophecy)

    As for an answer, I will give it when Labor Day rolls around.

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    1. If _all_ the elements of David Pack’s prophecy come true, then I would consider it.

      As far as whether he is a prophet or not, his pronouncements make him such even if he has not stated “I am a prophet”. What has Weinland done more than Pack? (Other than directly claim to be a prophet).

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  2. As I’ve said in the past….

    I am probably the only one here (there may be 1 or 2 others) that believes the general framework of prophecy that was taught in the WWCoG.

    I have always said that.

    A specific time frame has been given for this even: “in a month”, this is the month of Elul.

    For the details of why this Elul of 2013, that is “an exercise for the reader” as they say.

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  3. I don’t remember which poster mentioned these 3 deaths, but I knew the bible passage without being told by anyone, after the poster posted it, I read and found the bible passage on my own. The point is this, I did not have anybody tell me where it was in the bible, but I was able to find it.

    So, I have known for some time. (I would probably have not known, had the poster not mentioned anything)

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    1. I believe that on Labor Day, David Pack will spiritualize the deaths of a few CoG leaders, and declare that the other CoGs have disqualified themselves as being part of the splinters (though he will still have his splinter-explanation packet on his website.)

      And it’s looking like Martin will be buying into his explanations. Please say it ain’t so.

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  4. As I already said…ANOTHER POSTER here….mentioned the 3 deaths.

    Everybody here that read the posting (and Mike tried to get more details from the poster, but she declined) here has known about it.

    I knew the bible passages shortly after the above posting just via reading the bible, I had stumbled upon them.

    The point I’m making is that I didn’t just know about because of this past Friday’s posting on the RCG site.
    In other words, I didn’t just believe it because Pack said so, because I knew of the passage for some time.
    (again, I would never have known, except for the original posters mentioning of it)

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  5. Martin: here is why Pack WILL be wrong about it, as well you if you believe Biblical prophesy, etc.

    COG theology is wrong because Biblical theology is wrong. So it is not a question of saying “you are wrong” for believing it. The wrongness has occurred long before you were born. You have inherited lies by being a Christian in the first place, so your wrongness is merely you not having a correct set of facts about the world, or Reality, etc. My criticism of Christianity or you or Weinland stems from the same place. COG theology is based on making false prophecies, denying them, and then pretending nothing happened. It was not called “1975 Could be prophetic” it was called 1975 IN PROPHECY…” Your faith is based in 2000 years of NT lies + an extra 3000 some years of OT lies that the NT lies are based on.

    If jesus CHRIST is wrong for 2000 years, Pack ain’t gonna be right this month…Pack has made a prophetic statement that is 100% and I WILL BE PROVEN CORRECT. That is a FACT, and at the end of the month when it is proven to be a fact, will you lie and say it was not meant literally, rather God has X, and Y…just like Weinland lies about his earlier lies? You can believe whatever you want, and I am not trying to “attack” your faith. But Pack is 100% wrong, and you will be wrong too if you believe any part of it. The REAL question is…what is Pack going to say when it doesn’t happen, and what are YOU going to think when I am proven 100% correct?

    What will this fact mean to you?

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  6. 1975 in Prophecy is online. Check out how embarrassing it is.

    I do not have to be so sanguine as to attack Christianity. British Israelism was declared by Herbert Armstrong as being “The Key to Prophecy!”. We’ve proved British Israelism wrong so many ways so many times. Therefore, all the prophecies based on this kook idea by crackpots failed. They can never come true. The United States and British Commonwealth are not lost tribes of Israel. There aren’t any lost tribes of Israel. All the Cult of Herbert Armstrong base their predictions on British Israelism — every last one of them. So Davey Pack will be wrong and nothing he predicts will happen by the end of August. He is a crazy nut and a fool, not unlike Conald Swineland, this six pack “that one” prophet, Ewwwww King, Booby Thiel, Davey Malm and all the rest of the alphabet of the CoHA. Wrong. All wrong. Their prophecies will fail and they will always be wrong.

    Just because someone lines up an obscure Scripture they then use as an analogy to modern events in dishonest proof texting, does not mean that even if the ‘prophecy’ may be true, it was likely fulfilled before Jesus’ birth or at the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and there is no ‘duality’ to Scriptural ‘prophecy’. One event… count them… one event is being described. There aren’t two Great Tribulations and there aren’t ‘mini’ Tribulations. The people that claim these things are kooks who have gone off their rockers. To rely on them with their distorted perceptions and fantasies will make you an utter fool.

    No one will get wish fulfillment no matter how hard they try and how high their blood pressure goes in the exercise. It’s not going to happen just on magical thinking. I watched people with their psychotic breaks believe they could control the Universe with their will — it seemed quite real to them as they recreated the Universe and made God all over again, while they were in their bedroom sitting on a chair with their arms raised believing that the power of the Universe was coursing through them. Fortunately, they are mostly stable these days on their regimen of meds. It’s not an experience you will be wanting to go through.

    It’s nuts. It’s daft.

    If you value your mental health (and these days it seems that a lot of people don’t), do NOT dabble in crackpotology of the kooks.

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  7. At this point it is pretty damn fair to say, that the burden of proof falls on any soothsayer that claims to be saying sooth.

    What all of these jokers have been doing is literally no different in any way from TV psychic / palm reading. Telling stories for money. That. Is. It.

    So I beg your pardon if I call every one of these curse/murder uttering vile schitzophrenics masquerading as ministers of light, a false prophet NOW, rather than later.

    Lessons were learned!!!

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  8. The way all of these ministers speak to and about other people, is so revealing of a demon pit of mental issues and naked greed, seriously, somebody has to be joking to suggest the next baboon in line is getting promoted to ‘prophet’ now. Good grief.

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  9. Wonderful jaunty conversation here! I love it…it’s so refreshing to talk openly about the failed and soon to fail prophesy! Thank you for letting me be part of it!

    To answer a question – while in the church, we were only told of those who left the church if it was known or suspected that we knew of someone who left. If they thought we did not know someone, it was not mentioned at all, so we had no idea of how many were leaving. To this day, I only know of those who left our church and the more well known folks. I am in the great lakes area. That gives you just a couple areas to choose from. I’m getting over my fear of being “discovered” as I have more protection outside of the church than when I was in it! So what if they sleuth out who I am! Phooey! It certainly bothers me how well the Weinlands lived while we trimmed and trimmed our budgets to meet “God’s will”. I hate how others would just be beside themselves when they would meet him. He actually performed the marriage service for me and my ex-husband. People just could not believe how lucky we were…ugh-

    I hope they sell the Weinland’s possessions…and soon. The missus was giving all her jewelry away to some of the elders last year!

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  10. How could she give away jewelry that they said belong to the church? They should go after the elders for receiving stolen property. Oh I forgot God(Ron) can do anything he wants.

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  11. 1975 in Prophecy. The correct link to this embarrassing document is:
    http://ambassadorreports.com/

    When Labor day hits, Dave Pack will be left with his dick in hand.

    Here that Martin? What will you say when he fails? Will you accept his excuse?
    Most likely, you will. I used to make excuses for the church also. Did that a couple of times before I grew some balls and confronted the problem. The problem being is that they were more interested in my wallet that my salvation.

    Ask yourself Martin, what is sin? Answer: Sin is the power of the priest. Power over you gullible people who allow a man to come between you and your God. If you believe in God them go it alone. This ain’t the first century. Religion is big business throughout the world. What our really practicing is and looking forward to is called “spiritual communism“.

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  12. Douglas hits the nail smack on the head. Do not dabble in the crackpotology of the kooks, Martin. Pack knows no mystical spiritual secrets. Martin, I don’t doubt your sincerity of beliefs. As a Christian, stick with your bible. Anything else is insanity.

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  13. Gone And Forgotten:

    The reason you can have this “jaunty” conversation with us is because that was what GOD always wanted for you: freedom. The freedom to see your faith supported by some and challenged by others, to hear ALL opinions, ALL beliefs, and ALL facts. I completely reject the Bible because ti is provably a lie in most parts. But some believe the parts that are generally true, or things they like to believe. No matter what I say, they should and WILL have the free choice to believe/accept/reject whatever they wish, no matter what is true or false or what I believe or someone else believes, etc. The underlying thing is FREEDOM. The COGs HATE freedom, not because being free leads you away from GOD but away from THEM. Truth is “sick” to them because their profits go down when TRUTH is spoken. People escape manipulation and lies when they leave the COGs, and then Pack can’t pretend he is the greatest minister in the world, with GOd looking over his shoulder.

    TRUTH hurts liars only. TRUTH leads people away from THEIR God, who just so happens to be fiction. They face the truth when you leave, and they HATE truth. It reminds them of just how FAKE they are and they are scared more people will find out. Jesus had dinner with tax collectors, who were HATED by Jews. Jesus set an example of finding peace with those who do not share your beliefs, while the COGs demand you never talk to even your own family, just in case you start to se through their narcissistic ministry, and threaten their financial base. Pack OWNS his Church, so does Weinland. OF COURSE they are going to hide the truth from you. ALL scammers lie. especially when there are MILLIONS at stake.

    IF the Bible is true…isn’t it odd how the HOLIEST man to ever walk the face of the Earth, Jesus Christ, AND his human followers reached out to doubters debated with them, and and even miraculously fed them when they gathered, knowing full well many would not believe and reject what they said? Compare that to the COGS:

    1. Don’t read anything.
    2. Don;t talk to anyone.
    3. Everything other than what I say is a LIE, so only believe me and only what I say about the BIBLE.
    4. Don;t trust yourself when you read the Bible. ONLY I the LEADER have the final say over what YOU believe.
    5. If Jesus said something that is in contrast to what I THE LEADER say, I am right because I have a special commission for this End Time.

    Hmm. I wonder $$$ why they are $o afraid $$$$$ of anyone actually inve$tigating what we $ay $$$$$$$$…….

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  14. Gine And Forgotten:

    You also raise another great point: that one must hide their curiosity for fear of being ratted on to, or discovered by, a minister. I t reveals the sick power structure these toilet theologists use to keep the truth as far away from you by any means necessary. You could be ‘discovered” believing jesus Christ and be thrown out for it, as the actual theology of jesus reveals the sickness of COG theology. Jesus answered questions: he was asked about his theology by curious people, his own followers, AND especially, those who sought to trap him and prove he was blaspheming against Jewish Law. The curious gots answers, the faithful received instruction, the enemies were at a loss for words by Jesus out-debating them and revealing THEIR flawed theology

    At NO TIME did Peter tattle on Thomas for not believing. At no times was James “thrown out” for questioning Jesus. So why would Weinland or his fellow toilet dwelling “elders” get angry for being questioned or followers contemplating and discussing their theology. BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT IT. THEY HATE IT. IT THREATENS THEIR TINY EGOS THAT THEY DON;T HAVE 100% CONTROL. THEIR NARCISSISM IS SO EXTREME THEY WOULD THROW YOU OUT OF CHURCH BECAUSE THEY AREN;T GETTING WHAT THEY WANT. Jesus wasn’t even angry when Judas betrayed him, in fact Jesus told him that it was time for him to do what he knew was going to happen anyways.Compare that to EVERY COG leader, who spends the majority of their time bragging about how THEY are the End Time Apostle of God, and trying to put death curses on each other for not obeying THEIR authority as God’s End Time X, or Y.

    Your fear of being discovered is proof positive these anti-Christs are the cowardly weaklings they are. jesus was not afraid. They are. Jesus was NOT a coward. They are. Jesus did NOT silence anyone. They spend most of their time trying to sil;ence anyone/everyone who speaks even a microscopic amount of truth.

    Perfect example?

    Weinland called us “bloggers who lie”…AND YET YOU CAN FIND HIS DAUGHTER’S MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE ONLINE AND SEE WEINLAND’S OWN SIGNATURE ON IT, AND THAT HE COMMITTED PERJURY BY LYING ON A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT, WHICH IS A FEDERAL CRIME PUNISHABLE BY UP TO 5 YEARS IN JAIL. The only way they can say it is a lie is if they LIE LIKE INSANE PEOPLE AND PRETEND REALITY IS SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IT IS.

    They are such liars, they even lie about what a kindergarten CHILD could look up on line and find out to be true!!!!!!

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